Roland Caminades, Avion Europe and the European Heat Treat Market
Earlier this year “The Monty Heat Treat News” had the opportunity to visit heat treat industry supplier “Avion Europe” at their headquarters in Hagen, Germany-the end result was this article; https://themonty.com/avion-europe-a-growing-force-in-the-german-heat-treat-market-part-1-of-2/ We promised we would keep our readers updated on this growing force in the German heat treat market and as a consequence we have this interview with Mr. Roland Caminades, majority owner of the company. Roland a pleasure always to be speaking with you. Since we last spoke what changes/challenges/opportunities have you seen?“Thank you Gord, also for me it is always a pleasure to talk to you. I think I have now followed “The Monty” for more than 20 years with great pleasure. Your background information from basically all over the world is always informative and entertaining.
“Well, to answer your question: A well-known phrase is “Time flies when you are having fun” So a lot of things have been happening, but the most breath-taking development happened with our reflective coating “CeraCoat”. For more than 12 years we tried to convince people to save energy with this relatively small investment but did not succeed. Now, with the CO2 debate and the connected charges for emissions people have started to listen. Now heavy weights like Salzgitter Group are using the material and save energy and Co2 emissions up to 10%.
As important for us is the great performance of our Polish office in Swiebodzin which we established last year. Meanwhile we are with two design engineers, our technical director, one sales engineer, an electrical and one mechanical technician. Great guys with a lot of experience in building non-atmospheric furnaces and Endogas Generators. By the way: we did not open an office in Poland because it is cheaper but because the brains are located there.”
February 8th of this year you entered into an agreement with Italian furnace builder Cieffe, an event that you were obviously very excited about, this is the summary; “Italian Furnace equipment manufacturer Cieffe Thermal Systems S.r.l. and Germany based AVION Europe GmbH & Co. KG just announced a formal strategic cooperation for services, spare parts as well as new equipment sale for the German heat treatment market. “Starting from March 1st, 2024, AVION Europe will be engaged with our German customers, suppling original Cieffe spare parts and all services around our furnace lines. This includes brick work, maintenance and revamping or upgrading productive assets to industry 4.0/5.0 of almost 600 furnaces in the German market” explains Peter Schweighofer, CEO of Cieffe International based in Zug, Switzerland.”
So, I have to ask you Roland-how has this partnership worked out so far? Have you done any interesting projects together that you can share with us?
“Yes Gord, the partnership with Cieffe was an exiting moment in the history of our company.
Since Cieffe lost its German representative a couple of years ago Cieffe was not as visible in the German Market for the last 2-3 years. Of course, the customers looked for alternatives.
Now as the representatives of Cieffe in Germany we have to regain trust in the Cieffe brand. We are happy with the first results e.g. modernisation of older furnaces, spare parts sales etc. The sale of new furnace lines easily takes several months and based on the extent of the project even up to two years. Therefore, we are happy to be already considered by some of our clients for projects to be realized within the next couple of months. In close cooperation with our friends at Cieffe we will succeed and regain market share very quickly.”Let’s switch from “Cieffe” to another company you work very closely with, controls company SSi. SSi has products for virtually every aspect of heat treating but one which I know you have always been excited about is their “Autogen” system for endothermic generators. Perhaps you could explain to our readers why this product has been so successful for you?
“That´s an easy one… because the AutoGen is a great product. It only lets the Generator produce the amount of Endogas that is needed for production, and you do not need to burn excess natural gas anymore. While almost all new generators are built with such a control meanwhile, the Autogen can also be installed as a retrofit for all old generators that still burn excess gas. When I pass a generator in a factory and see the burn-off flame I always see money being fired into the air. Don´t discuss climate change when you are not ready to save gas and CO² with such a small investment. In my opinion it’s a no-brainer…
That’s pathetic and I get pretty emotional when I see that we could do so much for our climate with such little effort. I mean we are not working in the most environmentally friendly industry, and we should do our utmost to do as much as we can when we have the opportunity to reduce the damage that our important industry generates. Especially when you ROI is in less than a year… Again, a no-brainer.
The largest heat treatment show in Germany this year is the HK25 exhibition in Cologne, Germany October 8-10th and I understand you will be co exhibiting with several other companies such as Cieffe, Adencon, Mivia and SSi Super Systems UK. Perhaps you would care to give your co exhibitors a bit of a plug?
“Well, to stay with the SSI products: If you like the idea of the AutoGen come to the show and see the SuperGen…it is already the next generation of add-on control systems for Endogas generators. Easier to install and smarter to control. With Adencon we work together in the field of Vacuum furnaces and represent this Turkish company in the German market. The first furnace is almost finished and due for delivery in October. We are very excited. And then of course our support for MIVIA, the new kids on the block”
Roland, you have told me a little bit about Mivia, certainly enough to “pique” my interest. If I understand correctly, they have a system which will provide an analysis of the microstructure of a part in seconds. I know I and most of our readers would be very interested in more details.
“MIVIA was at the Cologne show last year and we decided to support them based upon what they have to offer. MIVIA found a way to use Artificial Intelligence to evaluate microstructures of metal specimen within seconds. The lab guys do not need to compare the micrographs with photographs of metallic structures with the naked eye. Virtually millions of already evaluated structures are determined by the AI software and the lab guys can use their precious time to do more important things instead of comparing structures with photographs that are 20 years old or even older. Pretty slick in my opinion.”
Roland when we visited you earlier this year you showed us a very impressive new, mesh belt furnace installation at fastener manufacturer Nedschroef in Altena, Germany. Avion sold the system for Sistem Makina and was also installing it, when we saw it was just about to be commissioned. Is the furnace in full production now?
“The furnace is in full production and runs three shifts a day producing approximately 1,000kg/hr. We also modernized 3 other lines damaged in a flood two years ago, they are running flawlessly with AVION’S Scada system. We have to say thank you to all the Nedschroef people for their assistance. Even in the face of some installation problems they were always fair and helped as much as possible. This was and is a great learning curve but at the end we got the job done and now Nedschroef is able to produce automotive and aerospace quality (10.9).”
Related to the question above the furnace was designed and built by Sistem Makina of Turkey and the relationship between Avion and Sistem Makina was relatively new if I remember correctly. Has this relationship lead to any other furnace projects for anticipated projects?
“Since this was our first job with Sistem Makina we did not pursue further projects. We wanted to wait until the furnace was in full production and the support of Sistem Makina continued until the very end of the project. We definitely will continue, and the first project triggered our hunger for more.”
Germany has been in the news quite a bit recently, unfortunately for all the wrong reasons, namely a slow down in manufacturing largely due to energy pricing. How is this effecting the captive and commercial heat-treating industries?“Your question about the German economy has to be revised after news of today…An old German saying is “ when Volkswagen has a cold, the German economy gets the flu…”The announcement of VW that a closure of production sites in Germany is no longer a “No Go”means an earthquake to the German industry. In combination with the news that ThyssenKrupp in the steel industry is also in trouble the German heat treatment industry (HTI) will suffer tremendously…Still it is true that for us as a small company we will find our niches …But the news of today mean that also the German HTI will see an unprecedented Change for the chances in the future. We still focus on our strengths, but the circumstances changed dramatically.”
Thank you for your time Roland, I very much appreciate it. Sincerely, Gord Montgomery
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